Curse

Doomlord_Slayermann · Aug 18, 2006, 03:16 PM // 15:16

I think we're way off topic here. Nevertheless, Warcraft 3, in the opinion of many strategy gamers (including me) sucked. WoW, in the opinion of many MMO players (including me) sucks. Diablo 2 is undeniably awesome, really, but the other two are less universally praised.

frickett · Aug 18, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

If GW was pay to play I wouldnt be playing. I dont think a game company needs my credit card information. Never have, that is why I never played eq or wow or ffXI even though i have played all the other ones. I don't believe in the concept of buying a game, only to pay for it again every month. I think that is just a way for game companies to rip you off. If you own the game, you should be able to play the game. Fee free.

Superdarth · Aug 18, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Indeed,i have my opinions about blizz but this is no place to argue,lets get back ontopic and leave the fanboi V.S hater discussion behind

EPO Bot · Aug 18, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Yet the communities of all Blizzards games continue to thrive anyway.Despite the "godawfulness" of the games themselves.

Ahem: Point was, introducing fees in Guildwars would be fatal. And then there would be tons of VERY pissed players who would never buy another Anet game. Bad bad idea...

Cherno · Aug 18, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakk

Sure we got addicted to the pve side of prophecies, but the game wasn’t designed around that.

What makes you jump to that huge assumption? If it wasn't designed around that, then it wouldn't exist. The game was designed with both pve and pvp in mind, thus both exist.

Superdarth · Aug 18, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

I agree with epo on the fees part,the first part of his post..*points at superdarths post before this one*

gabrial heart · Aug 18, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomlord_Slayermann

This has already been beaten to death, resurrected a few times, and then beaten to death again.

Honestly, Guild Wars will essentially be PtP if they release a new chapter every few months, which is what they're doing now.

LMAO, that's what GW is all about, get killed then resurrected only to come back for more. If GW goes ptp I won't play it anymore, when people pay and don't get what they want they whine even more, look at the WOW forums or the game enviroment for that matter. WOW is a whine festival daily, no matter what new update comes out, people simply just aren't happy with what they are paying for. Honestly WOW could have MASSIVE amounts of content (even more then it does) and i won't play it. The dynamic is to life like, the competition to direct (PVP/PVE combined for mission/quest completion). When you have to fight groups of players just to get to a mission objective it's just too much crap to deal with. Holding camps, fighting off players for booty, running to get you're fallen body... BLEH!

Looking at PTP for GW will mean the death of the game, with no possible rez in sight.

led-zep · Aug 18, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

monthly fee= bye bye gw, hello wow

but then pay per content and previous chapters beng unsupported = bye bye gw, hello wow too

Curse You · Aug 18, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

I find that because Guild Wars is free once I buy it, I don't feel that I MUST play. With WoW, I would be constantly thinking, "I'm spending money and not using it" and so I would be even more addicted.

I really wonder, how can Arena Net run their servers from just selling game copies, and yet Blizzard has to charge everyone who plays? It seems to me that they might not be using all that money for the servers, or their servers are stupidly expensive.

Metanoia · Aug 18, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomlord_Slayermann

Please.

Guild Wars (1) is still skill-based (in PvP at least), (2) is not making "compromises" to stay "afloat", (3) is not held together by PvE players. They do indeed make changes to the game (which will become progressively less necessary as more chapters are added) to keep it balanced, but this doesn't exactly "compromise" much, except of course someones precious farming build or something that was exploiting the game for more money. If you think PvP is dead player base-wise, well, you must not PvP.

Please? Do you even know what you're talking about?

First, don't assume I'm a PvE player just being I'm not ignorant of the fact that they make up the vast majority of the player base, and thus revenue of Guildwars. Yes, that's right, the vast majority of Guildwars players ARE PvE, that's not to say they never PvP, but they're certainly not at a serious competitive level such as GvG. The serious competitive player base isn't dead, yet. But it's certainly in decline.

Of course it's still, litterally, a skill-based game. But I never said it wasn't, did I? It's certainly not fine-tuned as they keep throwing out hundreds of unneccicary new skills, most of which are just 'filler', every 6 months. It's not healthy for a serious competitive PvP game. I'd consider that a pretty big compromise to the "finely tuned tactical skill-based PvP game" to stay "afloat" as their current business model depends on the sales of chapters, and new skills/professions sell chapters.

Edit: Curse You, WoW make an obscene profit. They even have their special "patch technology" which basically uses customer's bandwidth for patches Napster-style rather than their own. The money saved via this is generously passed on to their cust-- share holders. Seriously, they're printing money.

Ps. Doesn't WoW have a per hourly payment system? Or is it just so expensive that it's usually cheaper to pay the full $15.00/month?

Edit II: Almost forgot, WoW does actually use more bandwidth as it's a true MMO is the sense that it has a persistant world. Guildwars is also missing the Z axis, which is a money-saver, I suppose.

Kaguya · Aug 18, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

I find that because Guild Wars is free once I buy it, I don't feel that I MUST play. With WoW, I would be constantly thinking, "I'm spending money and not using it" and so I would be even more addicted.

I really wonder, how can Arena Net run their servers from just selling game copies, and yet Blizzard has to charge everyone who plays? It seems to me that they might not be using all that money for the servers, or their servers are stupidly expensive.

It has been pointed out many times, that you are playing as much per month for playing GW, as you would be paying to play WoW.

50 bux every six months comes to 8.3 bux a month, add on any chara slots you might want to buy, and whatever tricks they have up their sleeve for the future, the price is somewhere close to WoW.

Of course the player may not buy the expansions and keep playing, but..

And of course Blizzard, or any other company running a MMO takes more money from the players than they need to run the game. The companies need to make profit, after all. You don't make profit by getting just enough money from your customers to keep the servers up.

ForgeWhelp · Aug 18, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

I played the 10 day trial of WoW for 8 days and decided that it may have been fun but not nearly enough to warrant a monthly fee. I can get all of the same content and annoyances from playing Runescape for free. Granted the graphics a a BIT lower, but for the most part it has much of the same content. I then started playing GW based upon a recommendation of a friend and thouroghly enjoy it. Would I pay monthly for it? No. I like how it is a effectivly a single player game that 'could' be played with others. But for my likings how could I even begin to think about paying a monthly for a single player game?

Yes many people like hte PvP aspect, but to me it just feel like any other multiplayer game, where there are a handful of decent players, a lot of players that play just to pwn people (rudely), and a lot of new people that just don't know what they are doing. For someone like me it is very unfun and frustrating trying to play the PvP. So I stick to PvE with the occasion guild-mate and enjoy the game quite a bit.

Mithie · Aug 18, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

See, the thing with Guild Wars is: with all these expansions, YOU, the player, have the choice of not buying them. If you stop paying for your next month of WoW fix, guess what? You can't play anymore. But, in Guild Wars, after the FPE, you find Cantha's not for you, hey, guess what, you don't have to shell out money for it! You'll still be able to play with the features you've paid for in Prophecies.

Doomlord_Slayermann · Aug 18, 2006, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metanoia

Please? Do you even know what you're talking about?

First, don't assume I'm a PvE player just being I'm not ignorant of the fact that they make up the vast majority of the player base, and thus revenue of Guildwars. Yes, that's right, the vast majority of Guildwars players ARE PvE, that's not to say they never PvP, but they're certainly not at a serious competitive level such as GvG. The serious competitive player base isn't dead, yet. But it's certainly in decline.

Of course it's still, litterally, a skill-based game. But I never said it wasn't, did I? It's certainly not fine-tuned as they keep throwing out hundreds of unneccicary new skills, most of which are just 'filler', every 6 months. It's not healthy for a serious competitive PvP game. I'd consider that a pretty big compromise to the "finely tuned tactical skill-based PvP game" to stay "afloat" as their current business model depends on the sales of chapters, and new skills/professions sell chapters.

No, serious PvPers do not make up the majority of the GW population but that is not at all what you said in your original post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metanoia

It's true that their original dream of a finely tuned tactical skill-based game is all but dead.

Yes, you did say it was no longer a skill-based game, although from your second post it is evident that that was not the meaning of your first.

ArenaNet is getting better at balancing their game as it progresses, and the new skills reflect this. Just because you can't think of a use for them does not make them "filler". If we actually start seeing game-unbalancing new content (that ArenaNet doesn't fix) in new chapters, then yes, of course the game will die. The fact that it hasn't yet is evidence enough that it has yet to be unbalanced.

Sir Skullcrasher · Aug 18, 2006, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakk

Nope, this is not one of those threads that bashes anyone. I have been playing the game from day one and enjoy it still. What I am saying is that I think that as great as GW is, the pay to play option forces the game to become competitive with the current spat of PTP games like..well you know the ones in talking about.
Anet in my unlearned opinion is in between a rock and a hard place. Sure we got addicted to the pve side of prophecies, but the game wasn’t designed around that. So it seems that anet has to reevaluate and recreate a portion of the game that was never meant to be at the forefront. Again this is my speculation and opinion only

A good company listens to the demands of the people (within reason) and tried to give its customers what they want. The pve folks wants to see anet push the envelope it seems to bring us as close as possible to getting all the goodies of a ptp game without having to ptp.

Sure gw wasn’t designed to be pve, But I wonder what would have happened if it was. Even with that in mind prophecies was a very good pve experience, i just wonder what anet would do if they had the resources of a ptp game at their disposal. I cant control what anyone will say or do in response to this post, I can only say that my thought is clear and not intended to flame or get into the "this is better than that argument" its simply if anet designed gw to be as played equally as pve and pvp, I wonder what would have produced. Personally I think that product would have revolutionized the gaming world as much as anets business model for gw did.

I just have to ask this... what does Pay to Play do for us? Other than taking our money per months, what do we gain back in return? I have to agree with everyone, with new chapters, Guild Wars is slowly turning out to be a PtP game.

Bane of Worlds · Aug 18, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

extra profit=motivation and is true for most people IRL
Pay to Play could bring extra motivation, more content for GW, and the extra revenue to start up another game.

I pwnd U · Aug 18, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

If i remember correctly i do believe Gaile Gray said that GW will never be a PtP game. I could be wrong but i seem to remember that question coming up during a Factions preview weekend and her saying that GW will not become PtP. But like i said i could be wrong.

ibex333 · Aug 18, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaguya

It has been pointed out many times, that you are playing as much per month for playing GW, as you would be paying to play WoW.

50 bux every six months comes to 8.3 bux a month, add on any chara slots you might want to buy, and whatever tricks they have up their sleeve for the future, the price is somewhere close to WoW.

Of course the player may not buy the expansions and keep playing, but..

And of course Blizzard, or any other company running a MMO takes more money from the players than they need to run the game. The companies need to make profit, after all. You don't make profit by getting just enough money from your customers to keep the servers up.

That's BS and you KNOW it Kaguya.
I agree with Curse You 100%.

One does not pay as much per month playing GW, as they would be paying to play WoW.
And, one does not pay 50 bucks for GW every 6 months, because GW expantions are NOT released every 6 months. At least it hasnt been done yet.
As for the character slots, I dont know about you, but that's plenty for me, FOR THE PRICE. And tricks? What tricks? Even if there is trickery, there's definately not as much as there is in the case of greedy Blizzard.

I'm glad GW doesnt have monthly fees. It is THE reason why I bought it in the first place. For the price, it offers more than enough fun and entertainment.

I cannot pay the monthly fees for WoW because I find it too expencive.
$15x12months=$180(new nice video card, or motherboard, or processor, or a new video game like Elder Scrolls:Oblivion)

vs.

about $100 per year for GW, mabe less...(AND IT'S MINE FOREVER)

The other thing about monthly fees that I HATE is the concept of it...
I also believe, like Curse You, that because Guild Wars is free once I buy it, I don't feel that I MUST play. With WoW, I would be constantly thinking, "I'm spending money and not using it" and so I would be even more addicted.
Paying for my ISP is the same thing. But the internet is so much more important and useful than playing WoW.(which is why that's different)

And Curse You made a good point: "How can Arena Net run their servers from just selling game copies, and yet Blizzard has to charge everyone who plays?"

Another annoying thing is there's the contract which i cannot just cancel instantly. I have to call them, or go online, and go through the process of cancellation. I hate doing this kind of stuff. Call me a freak, but I hate credit cards, contracts, loans, paying per month, financing, etc. It is for this reason that I either pay the whole price right away, or I dont buy "it" unless I have the money to buy it straight up.

Ninna · Aug 18, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

GW players pay much cheaper than WoW

18 Months of playing Guild Wars
- Prophecies, Factions $100.00 (assuming buying GW on release)
- 3 extra slots $30.00
======================
approx total price: $130

18 months of playing WoW
- World of Warcraft: $50.00 (assuming buying WoW when 1st released)
- 15.00/mo or 13/mo if you buy 6 months in chunks ($225)
======================
approx total price: $275 (*double* the cost of what Ive spent on GW)

both games have an expansion due this year, that will cost you another $50.00 (Nightfall/Burning Crusade)

the most critical difference is
- GW players dont have to pay anything to keep playing content they already bought

Metanoia · Aug 18, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomlord_Slayermann

No, serious PvPers do not make up the majority of the GW population but that is not at all what you said in your original post.

Yes, you did say it was no longer a skill-based game, although from your second post it is evident that that was not the meaning of your first.

ArenaNet is getting better at balancing their game as it progresses, and the new skills reflect this. Just because you can't think of a use for them does not make them "filler". If we actually start seeing game-unbalancing new content (that ArenaNet doesn't fix) in new chapters, then yes, of course the game will die. The fact that it hasn't yet is evidence enough that it has yet to be unbalanced.

"No, serious PvPers do not make up the majority of the GW population but that is not at all what you said in your original post."
"Yes, you did say it was no longer a skill-based game, although from your second post it is evident that that was not the meaning of your first."
I apologise, I should have explained it better the first time. Although, I don't see the point of replying with "but I didn't understand the first time". Feigning ignorance is no way to prove a point, assuming you have one.

"Just because you can't think of a use for them does not make them "filler"."
Izzy himself has acknowledged the plethora of 'useless' skills. Insinuating that I am merely inept for not finding a situation where Savage Pounce is more useful than Beastial Pounce is rather obtuse.